So, this is a question we have been asked this week and are going to discuss tomorrow in class. Janelle and I had a great discussion over this question and wrestling with different passages tonight. So I posse the question to you guys out there, wanting to see your views. Anyone is free to comment giving their explanation. But with your answer you need to have a valid point and an explanation. Here goes, in the latter part of Romans 7, from verse 14 to 25 Paul speaks of a specific person. Is this person saved or unsaved, if unsaved did he get saved, if saved is this the norm for Christians to experience this warfare or is this a defeated Christian, why or why not? Let me know your thoughts?
is there such a person as a "defeated Christian"?
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning of chapter 8 it states: So now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, And because you belong to him, the power of the lifegiving spirit has freed you, from the power of sin that leads to death.
If one has been saved he is freed from the power of sin (see 7:24,25 and 6:16) it is ultimatly a choice; to believe this to be true, and to walk in obedience.
It is obvious Paul is speaking of himself in these writings. It would also appear that he was saved at this point; otherwise he would not have such wisdom of salvation, or what happens when one becomes becomes a Christ follower; unless the Holy Spirit Himself revealed this to him. I beleive he was illistrating what can and will occur when one becomes saved (see galations 5:16-26)
So if I understand you correctly, you are implying that this is the normal christian life for one who is saved? If he is truly saved then why isn't he able to do what he wants to do and not do what he does not want to do? Doesn't scripture say in I Cor. 10:13 that we will not face any temptation beyond our ability?
ReplyDeleteWell I agree wish both post in that yes "if one has been saved he is freed from the power of sin it is ultimately a choice; to believe this is true, and to walk in obedience". I also do believe that the Lord will not tempt us beyond what we can bear. The key here is if we rely completely in Him to over come temptations and sin, because none of the victory is in ourselves but in Christ. In reading and studying the passage in Romans 7 I do believe that it is Paul and he is saved. I also believe that he is explaining himself as a defeated Christian. Yes the Lord does call us to bear much fruit and yet the Christian life is not promised to be easy and there are those who are truly saved and yet don't bear much fruit (I Cor. 3:14-15) because any fruit that is not of Christ will be burned. Yet I believe that the constant struggle and not able to truly overcome the sin that he was dealing with here in Romans 7 is not the norm for everyday Christian living. Taking a deeper look into the passage, go and count all the times that Paul uses the word I. Now count the number of times that he addresses the Lord. We can clearly see that although he was saved; he was not living a victorious Christian life. We know this by his comments in verse 18 that he sees that nothing good dwells within him. He also had a knowledge of the seriousness of sin and did not want to do it. He didn't have a lack of desire but a lack of power to do what is right and good. These statements would only be made by someone who is walking with the Lord for it is through His Spirit that we come to have these convictions. He knows that the victory is in Christ. Also in verse 22 where we see that he delights in the Lord. The Greek translation for delight is; to be satisfied in, find satisfaction, to rejoice in with oneness. This is truly a very strong word and no one apart from Christ could or would say this in relationship to the Word of God. We see also then at the end of his struggle that he realizes and understands that there is no way that he can win this battle within himself apart from the Lord, Praise be the Lord! He truly is our Savior and Redeemer! This life is a constant battle and yet we have already gained the victory over sin and death if we are in Christ. For it was Christ who won the victory of sin and death that now we can take a hold of being in Christ (Romans 6:5-6). This is nothing of ourselves but truly the gift of salvation through Christ Jesus! Also taking a look at the text we can see a clear break in tenses that Paul uses between verses 13 and 14. In the beginning of the chapter he is writing in a past tense form. He then switches to a present tense form, thus clearly showing again that this was not written about his life before coming to Christ. He was writing about his life right now. If Paul wanted to describe his experience as a time before he was saved, he could have clearly done so by continuing to write in the past tense form. This is not exhaustive by any means and a lot more could be said about this passage but I tried to clearly explain this passage in view of what it says.
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